GoBlueRidge.net - Foxx Speaks Out Against Healthcare Bill - Constantly Updated High Country NC News Source

puttergirl

Registered | 11/06/2009 1:24PM

ill-conceived & damaging=Virginia Fox!

chambels

Registered | 11/06/2009 2:06PM

miss smarty pants = puttergirl
What are your solutions.

Fried Chicken

Registered | 11/06/2009 2:59PM

I'll give you a solution that will utilize already in place properties:

* Have government run health clinics in each major city/town that will accept any and all patients (save illegal immigrants) that CANNOT afford private health care (under a certain salary cap). In essence, forego health insurance for those who cannot afford it and just provide the service.

For most of us, health insurance will never be used. Just give us socialist health care and be done with it.

barkleydog

Registered | 11/06/2009 3:29PM

There is a system in place like that. It's the health department. Unfortunately, it's not enough. The health department is understaffed, undersized, underfunded, and over used. Also it only provides very limited primary care and no tertiary care at all. Many other medical practices just won't see patients if they can't pay.

In Watauga Co. there is the Community Care Clinic which is also in the same predicament. Although it primarily depends on volunteers. Their schedule is booked many months in advance.

This all seems alien to those with insurance and money, but try to get ongoing healthcare if you're poor and don't qualify for Medicaid. You will just be S.O.L.

And what would you propose sick undocumented people to do? Just die?
I know for a fact if you go to Mexico and get sick or injured, they (like most other countries) will take care of you regardless of your ability to pay or your immigration status. To deny needed medical treatment to anyone is just mean and selfish.

chambels

Registered | 11/06/2009 3:57PM

Barky - I have family and friends that work in the medical field in varying capacities. NO ONE IS DENIED HEALTH CARE IN THE U.S.in an emergency acute situation. There are plenty of people now who get "free" healthcare. The problem with the health dept. and "free" services under medicaid is just that. People abuse it because it does not cost them anything. So they clog up the offices with minor things which the rest of us who pay for our insurance and/or healthcare deal with. Things such as chapped lips, stubbed toe, an itch. Sometimes it is just some vague pain so they can get free drugs to get high on. Why not open up medicaid and the health dept. to more people but require a copay based on a sliding scale of ability to pay.

Greed Is good

Registered | 11/06/2009 4:32PM

Barkley, In reference your question "And what would you propose sick undocumented people to do? Just die? "

Here is my answer. How about if you show up in the emergency room as a criminal, which every illegal immigrant is once they broke the law to come here illegally.

We instead of wasting thousands of tax payer dollars on treating criminals from another country. Instead we spend just a few hundred to fly the criminal back to where they came from.
I think that's very fair especially since you can attest to Mexico providing free health care to anyone in need.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/06/2009 3:21PM

Gotta love Foxx. She is going all out for the outrage crowd.

"I believe that the greatest fear that we all should have to our freedom comes from this ... health care bill. I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country."

She has outdone herself in terms of being a total embarrassment to Wataug County.

Overall

Registered | 11/06/2009 4:19PM

The thing's going to pass regardless. Whine on or move on, flat earthers. Either way, it just doesn't matter.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/06/2009 5:51PM

I think it will pass. It will then be the political death of the Democrats that voted for it.

Retro

Registered | 11/06/2009 5:58PM

We'll see, It will have to be substantially watered down to obtain final passage and that will not satisfy the radical left, but at the same time it will still reduce the quality of health care and increase costs for most of us.

Retro

Registered | 11/06/2009 5:53PM

There is a large network of health care clinics throughout the state that offer medical care to the poor and indigent. Some are run as privately-funded agencies (my daughter works for one in Johnston County), others are funded by the State or by hospitals, and there are federally funded rural health care clinics.

The state also has had success with a program that encourages private practice specialists to take a quota of indigent patients similar to what attorneys do when they take pro bono cases. This is all in addition to Medicaid.

It is a MYTH invented by the left to support government run health care that poor Americans are denied access to health care.

barkleydog

Registered | 11/06/2009 6:56PM

It is no myth.

What you say about the systems of clinics is true but it's simply not nearly enough. The system of clinics to which you refer are not open enough hours to provide care to all who need it. Specialty care clinics exist, but that's not nearly enough either.

I suggest you talk to any one of the 31% of Watauga citizens who don't have and can't afford insurance and don't qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. See if their ability to find and afford reasonable primary care is a myth.

The real myth is that we have affordable healthcare for everyone and that we have the best healtcare system in the world. The fact is we have the most expensive healthcare in the world as well as we are over assessed, over treated, over medicated, and over charged.

Another myth is that our current state of healthcare in the US is in any way sustainable at $2.5 trillion a year. Of course, changing the way we pay for healthcare won't do either. Whether it's nationalized like all the rest of the developed countries, or continue the greedy fee for service system we currently have, it's unsustainable. Deciding who is going to pay at this point is like deciding where to place the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Now, to all of you who like the status quo because your job provides you with health insurance, I suggest you look a little further into what can happen to you in an instant. You get cancer and become so sick you lose your job. You then lose your insurance and maybe you can afford COBRA for a while but now you have a debilitating illness, no insurance, and a pre-existing condition that makes you uninsurable. So, you spend down your savings for treatment until you maybe qualify for Medicaid. Or, you become "disabled." I have seen our great healthcare system take every bit of savings from many families just to leave them still sick and now broke. That is no myth!

Retro

Registered | 11/08/2009 9:34AM

I wonder how many of that 31 percent really can't afford health insurance and how many just don't buy it and let others pay for their emergency care? A young person can buy a catastrophic health policy for very little.

Its just not true that Americans do not have access to primary care. It may be inconvenient and it may not be top of the line, but medical care is available to everyone, even to illegal aliens.

There is no doubt that wealthy individuals receive better health care that the poor or near poor, just as they are able to have better housing, nicer cars, and other necessities of life. But 85 percent of Americans like their health coverage. The Democrats' health care bill would diminish the quality of care for the great majority while increasing costs to all but those who already receive "free" care.

barkleydog

Registered | 11/08/2009 1:58PM

Well I guess some might afford it if they choose to eat dogfood. And respectfully, primary care is just not available to many. ED visits are not primary healthcare and just because someone can't pay the ED bill doesn't make it free.

Primary care involves having a "medical home" and though some primary care family physicians see the working poor, it's not enough. The Community Care Clinic is only open one night a week and has a backed up schedule into Feb. '10. The Health Dept. really doesn't see sick people anymore and they don't take walk-ins as they closed their primary healtcare clinic in 2007.

If you have good insurance, or have plenty of money, you don't really see the other side of the healcare dilemma. I work in it on a daily basis and see both sides. I see the rampant untreated diabetes, malnutrition, and many more untreated chronic illnesses daily.

Believe me, these people do not have access to any continuity of care. Additionally, they can't afford the high price of medications. Many of these folks are college educated and have recently lost jobs, insurance, and some housing.

Now, you are correct in that catastrophic insurance is available at a relatively lower cost if there is a high deductible. But that doesn't pay $80-120 it may take to visit the Family Doc. So, catastrophic insurance doesn't guarantee low cost or affordable primary care either.

No matter how one spins it, healthcare in the US is based on money and profit for a few, not health and care for everyone. What if the fire and police departments based their services on the fee for service like healthcare does?

Retro

Registered | 11/09/2009 5:06PM

Get informed! Do a search for Rural Health Care Centers or Federally-funded Health Service Centers. Here are the services they provide:

"Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. Health centers provide

checkups when you're well
treatment when you're sick
complete care when you're pregnant
immunizations and checkups for your children
dental care and prescription drugs for your family
mental health and substance abuse care if you need it

Health centers are in most cities and many rural areas. Type in your address and click the 'Find Health Centers' button to find health centers near you."

The above is from the web site of HRSA in the U.S. Dept of HHS. Hers is the web address http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

Did you know that Watauga Medical Center has a federally-funded Health Services Center. So does Ashe Memorial Hospital. There is one of these centers located in Mountain City and Collettsville and several others within 50 miles of Boone.

Notice that they provide primary care for those without health insurance.

Man Mur

Registered | 11/07/2009 8:37PM

I like how a main part of your argument against government involvement in health care is that there are already enough state and federally funded clinics for everyone. Oh, plus Medicaid...

Seriously, I think the problem isn't with the truly indigent. It's the working families who are having to figure out how they can budget $900 a month for health insurance, and what they'll have to give up if the premiums go up again.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/06/2009 6:09PM

Oh bull****.

I, too have many friends and relatives in the health care industry. Every single one of them tells me that it is the most absurd and heartbreaking system they could imagine.

All of them have wept over adults and children who have been forced to ignore the symptoms until it is too late because they can't see a doctor unless they pay up front and they don't want to incur huge bills at the hospital. Almost all are too proud to simply walk away from bills, contrary to the picture Chambels paints. They are also not systematic abusers of "the system" so aren't used to digging out every pro bono service available or embarrassing a doctor into providing care.

Health care shouldn't be "taking charity." It should be part of the basic services that are provided to every citizen just like roads, schools, libraries, and the defense system.

Make basic services available to all, and those who want three MRIs for one problem can get a supplemental policy, which is what Brits do.

abacab

Registered | 11/06/2009 8:22PM

BULLCANDYBARS!!!!!!

NoBS	Registered \| 11/06/2009 7:16PM

Oh! Is Virginia now going to give up her government health care?

grossdc2

Registered | 11/06/2009 10:06PM

I guess Virginia just doesn't care about people like me who can't get private health insurance due to a pre-existing condition. I guess that she would rather see people like me die quickly and not keep wasting tax money to stay alive.

I am going to vote her out at the earliest possible time let her have to find a real job again

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 6:24AM

All of the whiners on here need to do some research. The "health care" bill, regardless of your political leanings, is dangerous to this country and to us as individuals.
If you choose the government option, you will be supporting abortion on demand. Part of your premiums will directly help kill innocent people.
If you choose not to have insurance at all, neither private nor public, you will be subject to huge fines and up to five years of jail time.
This means if you refuse to participate for moral or religious grounds, you will be punished.
This is America?!?!?!?!?

NoBS	Registered \| 11/07/2009 10:23AM

Oh, please. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one. Leave the rest of us alone.

I don't believe in the War in Iraq, yet I am having to pay for it, so I assume you feel I shouldn't have to since I don't believe in it?

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 9:25AM

Do YOUR research. The abortion part is being voted on today. Personally I think blocking people from having abortion coverage through a private policy is abhorrent.

You do realize that you currently pay for women with Medicaid to get abortion under certain circumstances, and have done for many years, right?

Incidentally, do you think it's OK to refuse to have auto insurance? Maybe you're that uninsured p*** who smashed my cousin all to pieces a few years back.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/07/2009 2:19PM

I think a woman that murders her unborn child should be tried, convicted, and executed. ChrissyG, the supporter of such murderers, and I will never agree on this issue.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 3:10PM

Nope. Never will. And I say that as a mother.

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 4:19PM

So you're a mother?!!? Maybe when you get tired of your kid(s) you can just kill 'em.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:27PM

There's a world of difference between an embryo of 2 or 3 months and a fetus that could, at a stretch, live outside its mother's womb, let alone between an embryo and a child. Basic biology.

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 9:20PM

There's a world of difference between an infant who makes no contribution to society and a college educated executive who employs many people a pays for their health insurance. Save the exec, kill the kid.

chambels

Registered | 11/07/2009 2:43PM

NoBS - How about if you don't want to have a baby then don't have sex. It is not a matter of "believing" in abortion. It is a matter of believing that life begins at conception. An abortion does not just destroy a "mass of cells" or "a product of conception" it ends a human life.

NoBS	Registered \| 11/07/2009 3:04PM

chambels, are you in favor of equal and free health care for all children? For a full and free education for all? For food stamps for all children who can't get a decent meal? Or do you believe government protection of a life begins at conception and ends at birth.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 3:13PM

You mean, actually make sure the kid has a decent life and doesn't die of leukemia or an asthma attack or from being born to a crack addict? What a radical idea. No, Chambels, Beech Bum and Bill just want to get those babies born. After that, it's in God's hands, right?

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:02PM

ChrissyG None of the issues you mention negate the fact that you murder an unborn baby, a person with his / her own unique DNA, when you abort a baby. One cannot murder a more innocent person. Religion has nothing to do with it.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:31PM

That's why I refused to give birth in a Roman Catholic hospital. Had there been a choice between saving the baby or saving me, they'd have wanted to get that baby baptized - and never mind leaving my other kids motherless. One-track zealots, and blow the consequences.

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 4:24PM

Chrissy, denying the truth does not change the truth. I know this may sound simplistic, but good is good, and evil is evil...there is really nothing in between.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:31PM

...your ears?

chambels

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:43PM

NoBS - I am in favor of a renewal of personal responsibility, parental responsibility, responsibility to family and neighbors in need and community responsibility. I am not in favor of feeding the beast of a money grabbing, power grabbing, nanny state entitlement government and politicians.

NoBS	Registered \| 11/07/2009 9:38PM

Fine then. I say we give every woman needing an abortion a number and every person who opposes abortion a corresponding number. The person opposing abortion can then assume all responsibility for the child with the corresponding number. Sounds fair enough.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/07/2009 5:49PM

In other words, you want to make people feel grateful for your bountiful charity rather than giving them basic care as a right of citizenship, just like driving down paved roads.

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 7:49PM

Our "right of citizenship" includes the "pursuit of happiness", not happiness mandated and doled out by the government.

Man Mur

Registered | 11/07/2009 8:25PM

Now, help me out here and explain how expanding health care coverage equals "happiness mandated and doled out by the government".

paulman1

Registered | 11/07/2009 6:43PM

The only thing I know for sure is that
Henry Porter's name is not really Henry
Porter...

beechbum

Registered | 11/07/2009 7:12PM

Yeah, His birth certificate says "Hank". BTW, where is lawnboy?

chambels

Registered | 11/07/2009 8:45PM

Chrissy - paved roads are a right? Obviously you do not understand the concept of responsibility that I speak of. It has nothing to do with charity or people feeling grateful to me personally for anything.

As a side note I just watched Abby Johnson speak on Huckabee. She is a former director of a Planned Parenthood Clinic who quit her job and became Pro-Life after assisting with a sonagram abortion. If you care for much about rights, I challenge you to watch it tomorrow night. It may just change not only your mind but your heart.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/08/2009 7:04AM

Chambels: We do not say to someone who is driving down the road to work in a beat up 20 year old Pontiac, hey, you don't get to drive on this road with all the Cadillacs and BMWs, because you work in a fast food joint and don't pay taxes, now do we?

As for responsibility, yes, I understand very well what you mean by 'responsibilty.' I believe in people being responsible for themselves and as far as is possible, their health (exercise and good diet). However, the way our medical system is, we have shut milllions and millions of people out of that door. When I have taken my kids to the hospital, which has happened several times, I have literally thanked God that I didn't have to worry about how I was going to pay for it beyond the several thousands in deductibles and coinsurance. EVERYONE should have that peace of mind when their kid is sick.

I'm not a big fan of this health bill that just passed but it is sure as heck better than what we have now.

NoBS	Registered \| 11/07/2009 9:36PM

I want to see a piece of federal legislation that blocks federal funding of erectile dysfunction drugs except to save the life of the patient during surgery.

chambels

Registered | 11/07/2009 11:09PM

Chrissy G - I just noticed one of your earlier post.
"There's a world of difference between an embryo of 2 or 3 months and a fetus that could, at a stretch, live outside its mother's womb, let alone between an embryo and a child. Basic biology."

I do not know where you learned your basic biology, maybe preschool. Without conception there would not be an embryo of 2 or 3 months or a child. Let me ask you this, when you were pregnant did you tell your family and friends that you had a "mass of cells or tissue",or how about "a product of conception" growing in your womb?

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/08/2009 7:11AM

Were my 14 year old daughter to be raped, God forbid, she would be getting an abortion unless she objected. And I would smack in the heads of any anti-abortion protesters blocking the way with their own stupid picket signs.

As to my own pregnancies - well, when I miscarried, was I upset? Did I mourn? Absolutely. But that was for the potential baby I wasn't going to have, not for a child.

Would YOU go up to someone who had just lost a 5 year old son in an auto accident and say, I know how you feel, I miscarried at 2 months? I don't think so. Or at least, I hope not.

Overall

Registered | 11/08/2009 12:25AM

These are silly questions and moot points, folks. Abortion is legal and always will be. And the House healthcare bill just passed.

Oh....and Earth is ROUND.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/08/2009 2:33PM

The House Bill narrowly passed. Now the retribution for those that ignored the will of their constituents will begin.

Legalized murder (abortion) will continue until there is a major change in the makeup of the Supreme Court.

Overall

Registered | 11/08/2009 4:49PM

The only 39 Dems who had to possibly give a squirt about right-leaning independent voters in their districts went ahead and voted "nay" for political cover. Now they can go home and claim, as it means and costs nothing at all, that they listened to "the will of their constituents" and, thus, will again earn their backing.

Last night's votes by those legislators were as relevant, valuable and worthy of attention as were the pathetically orchestrated heckling attempts by teabagging gnats at August's town meetings.

They just didn't matter.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/09/2009 11:22AM

You have voiced the slogan that is going to defeat many Democrats in 2010. We the people told our representatives our concerns. The Democrats listened and decided that "They just didn't matter.." They are going to find out our votes do.

Overall

Registered | 11/09/2009 3:33PM

No matter how easily you're conned into thinking that you're part of some HUGE wave of patriotic pilgrims who'll rise up as one to take our country back from that uppity guy in the White House, your numbers just aren't there, Bill.

To this point, I'm unaware of any published polling results that indicate a significant defection among traditionally Democratic voters. That means independents may play a roll in the results of SOME 2010 House races, but most likely only those in which sitting Democrats had to rely on a significant portion of independent voters to push them over 50% in 2008.

That said, the number of districts fitting that description and the current negative polling numbers among independents within those districts simply don't add up to what Republicans will need to reclaim control of the House. And since the numbers aren't there, all the drama, the griping and the "you'll see" threats that obstructionists can muster amount to nothing more than mild entertainment.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/09/2009 5:41PM

Good point. Polls show both Independents and the elderly are turning away from supporting the Democrats. Not a good sign for your side. I guess we will see what happens.

Overall

Registered | 11/09/2009 8:48PM

Glenn Beck's a genius. All you need to do is get a percentage of shamed and agitated Republicans to jump ship and claim to be independents, encourage them to parrot that "both parties need to watch out for the wrath of the independents in 2010," then distort any polls that seek to get a true reading on the opinions of legitimate independents.

Artificially manipulated perception is the new reality for the more easily distracted among us.

abacab

Registered | 11/09/2009 10:09PM

WOW! The sheep are still alive! BTW: The Earth is not round but a oblate spheroid! :shock:

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/09/2009 10:29PM

Y'all got so darned excited about Hoffman as the Great White Hope - oops.

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/09/2009 3:23PM

Like when the Republicans were overwhelmingly voted out after eight straight years of plunder and manipulation?

ChrissyG

Registered | 11/08/2009 3:34PM

Well, no good can come from committing sin (having sex other than to procreate, so I hope you're listening, all you Viagra-popping seniors). It could lead to dancing.

barkleydog

Registered | 11/08/2009 3:36PM

Oh please...
Healthcare reform has nothing to do with abortion. The abortion debate is non sequitur and only serves to confuse and and eclipse the issue.
I would be interested in how the current healthcare system in the US could possibly be sustainable and good for everyone.

beechbum

Registered | 11/08/2009 6:32PM

OK, forget abortion, forget moral issues, forget being fined and/or prosecuted if one refuses coverage.....WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT????Does anyone have a clear perception of just how much 1.2 TRILLION dollars is???

NoBS	Registered \| 11/08/2009 8:26PM

Oh, Oh! I know the answer. Since 2001, we've spent $929,606,665,690 on wars! See http://costofwar.com

barkleydog

Registered | 11/08/2009 9:22PM

Yes, it's about 1/2 of the US one year healthcare expenditure.

abacab

Registered | 11/08/2009 7:44PM

Here's a Trillion.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12754

Skip Vaccines

Registered | 11/08/2009 9:32PM

Crisis of America's Healthcare System
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15971

JerryC

Registered | 11/09/2009 10:50AM

way to much rambling on this thread

Fried Chicken

Registered | 11/10/2009 9:42AM

About illegal immigrants:

I would have them cared for, but then deported. They cost this country way too much to keep them here.

barkleydog

Registered | 11/10/2009 12:56PM

They are here because corporate America wants them here. Undocumented workers are cheap labor and they are willing to do jobs Americans are too lazy to do. Also, there is far less accountability with regard to workers' rights, OSHA compliance, tax witholding, etc...

Most of the illegal workers are just trying to make a better life and home for their families. Unfortunately, the media, conservative groups, and Nationalist need someone to hate and fear so they've made illegal immigrants their target.

Interestingly, I see far more morbidly obese, smoking, diabetic, and disabled US citizens than Hispanics. Now who do you suppose is squandering more healthcare resource?

Fried Chicken

Registered | 11/10/2009 2:08PM

I don't hate illegal immigrants. If I were in their shoes, I'd want a better life for me and my family, too. What I hate is their abuse of Federal funds when they are NOT paying in a single dime of payroll tax. This isn't the illegals' fault, but also the ones who employ them. I wouldn't care if they all stayed in America and continued working IF they began paying their fair share of taxes. Let's face facts: Most Americans (myself included) don't want to work as hard as most of the illegal immigrants do for the wages they receive.

My opinion is we need to make them legal (through the proper paperwork--which would create jobs for those who need them) and get them paying those taxes to provide for their own health care.

And, yes, a rapidly increasing amount of legal citizens are obese and using health care more because of it.

Greed Is good

Registered | 11/10/2009 3:48PM

Barkleydog , It is good to see you embracing the party line of criminals are just socialists in need of re-education. It does not matter if these criminals broke the law as soon as they stepped across the border. They are now the taxpayers responsibility, and we must embrace them. If we can get them the right to vote even better. Then they can help ensure the party stays in rule.

Overall

Registered | 11/10/2009 11:28AM

Assuming that folks aren't either just making stuff up or simply repeating unproven claims made by others, can anyone please indentify the page number of the section of HB 3962 that provides for insurance coverage of illegal aliens?

Overall

Registered | 11/10/2009 3:32PM

Anyone? Anyone?

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/10/2009 4:17PM

As I understand the bill, it allows illegal aliens to be given health care by omission. Please provide the clause and page that denies this care to them.

Overall

Registered | 11/10/2009 6:06PM

More flatearther mirth, Bill. Thank you.

One cannot prove a negative. It's like asking where in the bill it states that cross-dressing German wrestlers will be denied inclusion. It doesn't, so are we to assume cross-dressing German wrestlers ARE to be included?

Bill, I give even you enough credit to see how ridiculous that logic is.

And, again, until and unless someone can point to the section that provides for illegal alien coverage, we can all safely accept that claims of such coverage are nothing more than unfounded xenophobic rabble-rousing intended to irk and mobilize a racist base.

I will give you this, though......If you tell me that you'll work to unseat ANY current House member who has ever voted or will ever vote to pay for the medical care of illegal aliens with federal tax dollars, I'll gladly provide a list of persons who have done exactly that so you'll know who those unpatriotic traitors are.

Just call me Bill

Registered | 11/10/2009 7:02PM

You are correct. One cannot prove a negative. If health care for illegal aliens is allowed through the omission of language to prohibit it, then one cannot point to the page. If there is language to prohibit this atrocity, show it to me. There is for instance language to prohibit federally funding abortions.

I personally think, with a few exceptions, all of our House and Senate members need to be replaced. We do not need a professional ruling class.

Overall

Registered | 11/11/2009 2:51AM

Thank you for avoiding the challenge, Bill. It helps me and everyone else assess the level of seriousness with which we should accept any future comment of yours.

Should you eventually seek to learn about the traitors who have previously voted to pay federal dollars to cover the medical treatment of illegal aliens, let me know.

Until then, I'll accept that you want only to engage in meaningless wack-offishness on GBR.

Again, thanks for the entertainment, pal.

NoBS	Registered \| 11/10/2009 6:05PM

LOL! Classic. "It's not in the bill anywhere. Therefore, it's a trick and the fact that it is not in the bill means it really is in there. Now it's up to you to prove otherwise by citing for me the clause and page where it specifically says it is not in there."

abacab

Registered | 11/10/2009 4:10PM

I believe it is a loophole which doesn't requre proof of citizenship and that the 5 year waiting period for immigrants is to be waived. But that was a while back. Not sure if it was changed.